What MonBre NeedsWhat MonBre Needs
Vael Victus 
"See you, fantasy monster game."
Posts: 2201
10/12/2009 13:58 | What's wrong?
Players sign up. Most of the time they stay. Unfortunately they don't stay for long. Maybe I'm too hard on myself, with less than 2,000 signups in monbre's history. (for about two years) But I simply cannot develop this game blindly assuming that people are going to love it when it does not act like a browser-based game.
It's a damn shame that what makes this game unique is also what kills it. It's the freedom, primarily. People tend to grind away and "OD" on it, others sign up and remember it two weeks later, play again and are like "meh". The new skill system I made is great and for me, it makes the game officially fun. It's just not enough, however, when the game just isn't fun for most people. Please keep in mind I code MonBre with the idea in mind that I will some day live off it - so can you step back and imagine, in its current state, that monbre could really give me 600 subscribers a month? I think we hit a very small niche of particularly intelligent people. (and impulsive maniacs) But a game with a niche does not exactly equal to profitability.
I have played games "sorta" like MonBre - as there is no game as expansive as us. They seem to suffer from the same thing we do: you give people too much freedom, basically no limits and they end up hating it. Browser-based games are the only games that can impose limits on players and get away with it. Imagine loading up WoW and being told you can only play for half of your level's exp today? No one would be addicted at all! In the same vein, now, imagine opening up a browser-based game and not feeling any restriction? Well you realize you can quickly gain levels, and so you do that, keep grinding, hardly paying attention to battle, and then an hour passes and frankly, it can get tiresome. Now imagine instead that you go in, play for 10 minutes, and still really get somewhere? That's what I'm going to try to hit.
So here's my horrible list of solutions.
It saddens me so much to strip a bit of the soul away from MonBre, but if it's what I must do to make the game more accesible, (and profitable) then I will.
Bounty System. This was suggested in half by Demi Lune and I'm filling in the other half.
I'm going to half all the SRP that you get from defeating the mobs currently. Then I'll have a bounty system: when you go out to explore in the world, before you're all set up, you take bounties on what you're going to do. It's like a boast, have you played Fable ever? Before you'd go on a quest, you'd say "I'll slay them all... with no armor on!" and you'd get fame and glory.
It will be like that. You say "I'll go out there, you give me 2.5x SRP and I'll start all battles with half block blah blah". It breaks the roleplaying aspect a bit, but who cares at this point? Then when your bounty is over, you go back to the 1x SRP, which should stop everyone except the hardcore people, who I still want to cater to.
Limiting movement.
I hate to do this so much, but I fear I'll have to make trains incredibly cheap and be the only way to move around. People stress about (EVEN WITH THE NEW PACE FEATURE) moving between towns. The world will still be physically connected, it's just that trains/airboats will be so cheap that you wouldn't really want to go exploring too much... but maybe things like "treasure hunting" would make you want to.
The quests I have already will work.
A lot of already planned features won't really change too much...
I think disconnecting the cities from each other will be a big deal. Not sure how big. Working shouldn't change much, and I still plan to have school classes.
Well that's all I have to say for now. Please keep in mind I have no idea when this will all be done because I'm now coding MurCity as my main game. It's a facebook app. When I'm comfortable with its progress, I can come back to monbre and have two games in my repetoire.
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MonBre is an unlisted game of Tinydark Studio.
Personal Website: vaelvict.us
Edited twice, with the latest on Monday, Oct 12th 14:17:02 2009 by Vael Victus |
Vael Victus
"See you, fantasy monster game."
Posts: 2201
10/12/2009 14:00 | Please keep in mind if you have any suggestions, PLEASE post them here. Any stupid suggestion will be okay at this point because the core game will be changing a good bit.
I've even considered having the player being able to tick a "weeks" slot which would refresh the monsters' rests and drain the breeder's money. Sorta like monster rancher. But yeah I don't think that'd work for all my stuff I've done...
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MonBre is an unlisted game of Tinydark Studio.
Personal Website: vaelvict.us
Edited once on Monday, Oct 12th 14:21:43 2009 by Vael Victus |
Demi Lune
"The what now?"
Posts: 909
10/12/2009 14:21 | As long as you make the limits rational, and not like every other game - you get x energy every y amount of time, and when you're out of energy, tough luck - then it still conserves the spirit of MonBre. There are different ways to get players to stick, off the top of my head but without any real thought involved or consideration of the effort it'd take... A solid story with quests and stuff that actually get written, daily things for you to do (today, if you go kill 20 mobs, you get some extra bux! next day, bonus breeder xp, next day, who knows?), shorter term goals (little bit of both previous things in this one), and there's always catering to a very specific audience, such as those who like anime, or ninjas, or being a gansta mofucka and poppin' a cap in sum bitch.
Quests: Work in progress anyway?
Daily stuff: Bounties fit the bill for this
Shorter term goals: MonBre is a game with very long term goal. Proof: I've been here for more than 7 months, and am only breeder level 19. There's a lot to do (usually at least one quest in every town and city, ten gods to kill, etc.) but that makes people feel rushed, and then they beat all there is to do in a week. Which doesn't make the goals shorter term, it just defeats the purpose of having long term goals in the first place.
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But when that call never comes, it's time to face what you've become - there's no point doing all of this, unless you know you're having fun. |
Killer Killer
"die, die, die, die, die, die!"
Posts: 824
10/12/2009 16:56 | THe tough part for me is that I've just about beaten all of the quests and there's really no other way to gain experience (besides upgrading house and barn, and I'm almost there). SUre, you get a little exp for your health and mood, but I feel like I'll be stuck on level 14 for a good 30 or 40 days, maybe 20 or so after I've finished these quests up (kill the gollums and find the red rocks). I want more ways to gain exp; also, I want new content, which will keep old players like me and Demi, on the cutting edge, without having to go to contortions to train up superstrong monsters like Belichko does with Puwig (have you seen how crazy he is?) We've only gotten to cooridat, and am only at cooridat for who knows how long, and I want to go forward and continue trainig up. I don't like the thought of bounty missions that much, though, but I do see that people are just signing up and just forgetting all about it, and I don't know what to do aout it. I think that you should at least try and clean up the server of users who haven't been logged in in x days, maybe 30 or 50 or something, so that there is less strain on the server, and so on.
Please don't remove exploring, I mean, I always walk from town to town when training my monsters up so they can get the SRP out of mobs they kill, and also get the equips the mobs drop. You may want to decrease the price of trains, or make the prices proportionate to how far away the two places are, like new-orsa to silvamd could be 400 (which it is), but merthag-cooridat could be maybe 4-5 times as much, etc. I think that it is kind of ridiculous just how much many of the late trains cost, like from merthag to cooridat costs a bank-lightening 3500, etc.
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The rule of wildlife: Survival of the fittest.
If u want a challenge, I'll kill u with1swipe!
Die die die!
Your life is mine for the taking! Ha ha ha!
Stomp all over 'em like they was cookie crumbs!!! |
Vael Victus
"See you, fantasy monster game."
Posts: 2201
10/12/2009 17:49 | Yeah those trains are a bit ridiculous, I guess. Still, it sucks for you basically 'cuz I simply won't have any new content for you for a while. I wouldn't blame you at all for quitting, at least temporarily. Don't forget there's vacation mode too, so your monsters don't rot and stuff.
And hey, maybe you'll like MurCity.
Also I am not getting rid of exploring... MonBre was built on exploring.
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MonBre is an unlisted game of Tinydark Studio.
Personal Website: vaelvict.us |
Killer Killer
"die, die, die, die, die, die!"
Posts: 824
10/12/2009 19:41 | Perahps when I'm done training up, I'll save up for a guild, or make my SMashback or summat ridiculously strong, like Puwig.
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The rule of wildlife: Survival of the fittest.
If u want a challenge, I'll kill u with1swipe!
Die die die!
Your life is mine for the taking! Ha ha ha!
Stomp all over 'em like they was cookie crumbs!!! |
Garr Slayer 
"It's a good day."
Posts: 702
10/13/2009 01:28 | Half SRP? Yeah, I guess that'll make more people want to play, makes perfect sense. It will definatly make breeding more of a challenge. This will make the real fans the only player base.
I wonder how much more fun it's going to be.
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When life hands you a lemon, it's up to you what to do with it.
Half of anything is better then a whole of nothing. |
Demi Lune
"The what now?"
Posts: 909
10/13/2009 06:08 | The idea of half SRP isn't to only keep the hardcore players, it's to make room for the bounties so that people will want to play less - but for a longer period of time.
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But when that call never comes, it's time to face what you've become - there's no point doing all of this, unless you know you're having fun. |
Garr Slayer
"It's a good day."
Posts: 702
10/13/2009 09:58 | I'm not sure if it's really going to pull in more people or make players want to log in longer. Afterall, if you only have 10 or 15 minutes to play, it won't matter what the game says. And, lol, life expectancy got taken off so players could stay away longer without conciquences.
I'm not just saying it for me cause I log on a lot. And, if the only difference is that I have to accept challenges, it won't be much of a change SRP wise either.
Hopefully we'll get more and stronger mobs too. But, that'll be for old and current players, not new at least for a while unless they decide to stick around.
When I started playing I wasn't expecting to be playing for so long and am surprised that I stuck around, guess I'm hooked.
The new skill system, in my opinion, was a huge step in the right dirrection.
I believe the right players need to find MonBre. Think about this, i.e. not every sports fan plays sport games. The game just needs to change for all that like playing it not to make those who like games just want to try it out for a bit.
In summery, my point is, just make the game good and they will come.
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When life hands you a lemon, it's up to you what to do with it.
Half of anything is better then a whole of nothing. |
Vael Victus
"See you, fantasy monster game."
Posts: 2201
10/15/2009 11:21 | The game is already really good. There's a lot of custom content, there's an actual story, and yes we even have the new cool skill system. But people just don't stick. It sucks for you guys that you have to wait so long, and I hope you do stick around, because I like my little community but there's just not a whole lot that I can do for you right now. I'm going to get a "real" job and I'll be spending most of my time getting MurCity out the door. The game is still playable, and I think you can still have fun, but it needs something. I really don't know what.
The half SRP might be more like 0.75x the SRP. (instead of 0.5) Bounties are going to make the game easier and harder at the same time. You'll say "I'm gonna kill... 100 mobs!" as a bounty, and you go out with whatever your SRP buffer will be. But still pitfalls like, what if they don't finish the bounty? And what if they honestly want to play more?
It's hard to say who I can cater to. MonBre feels like a niche game and I want to get it out of that mold. I don't know if I will get players who say "Alright, I'll do 100 mobs today and log off" or if they'll be completely put off by the bounty system. I don't know if I should have more than one bounty, or what. It's possible that in the coming months I'll figure out a way to do things, but right now the bounty system's the best idea I've got.
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MonBre is an unlisted game of Tinydark Studio.
Personal Website: vaelvict.us |
Demi Lune
"The what now?"
Posts: 909
10/15/2009 11:47 | Smaller bounties with less rewards, maybe. Or, smaller bounties with extra difficulty vs endurance bounties.
Kill 10 mobs with no block or healing, or kill 100 without returning to town. Both could give 2x SRP, but it's your choice depending on how much time you have/want to spend.
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But when that call never comes, it's time to face what you've become - there's no point doing all of this, unless you know you're having fun. |
Killer Killer
"die, die, die, die, die, die!"
Posts: 824
10/15/2009 15:24 | Actually I think that the proportion is less in your favor at the earlier places with trains. For example: new orsa-silvamd is 400 bucks to move 50 tiles, which is $8 a tile, but arbestas-zunram is 1500, for going about 300 blocks, which is $5 a block. And that all adds up. I think that the quick trains should be cheaper, and new orsa-kahler is only 750, whereas places that are about the same distance near packus are about 2000, etc, and trains are more expensive as you go farther in the game, but I can see this.
----
The rule of wildlife: Survival of the fittest.
If u want a challenge, I'll kill u with1swipe!
Die die die!
Your life is mine for the taking! Ha ha ha!
Stomp all over 'em like they was cookie crumbs!!! |
Vael Victus
"See you, fantasy monster game."
Posts: 2201
10/18/2009 00:36 | Damn, Killer, nice job on the block math there. The thing is that I think trains are more valuable in that position.
I must admit I am a bit enthusiastic for MonBre again, but I can't work on it right now. I want to focus on MurCity because it has less of a development cycle and MonBre still needs some work done.
I still don't know what people's problems are. Although I also must admit while I did enjoy this game, I find it hard to go back to. I think it's because of those limits. If I can knock out that bounty system well, maybe it would freshen the place up. I really have no idea.
And FYI, demi, that's not really how it will work. There will be a list of things to add difficulty, for example you enter exploring with half block, or you are damaged already or you have a big sign that makes every step a mob encounter, or no regen for energy. Small things like that. So they all act as stacking multipliers.
I really really really wish I knew why people won't stick to monbre, but I think if I come back to the game and try to play as a newbie, I'll know what to do... but it just won't be any time soon. Remember I love you guys and I love this game.
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MonBre is an unlisted game of Tinydark Studio.
Personal Website: vaelvict.us |
Killer Killer
"die, die, die, die, die, die!"
Posts: 824
10/18/2009 02:08 | Well I'll be perfectly alright with moving make a mob encounter every time. I mean yeah, 'cause I like money, and I always use any extra money I wasn't expecting to heal up, so I can rush single-splicing or have the option when I need it.
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The rule of wildlife: Survival of the fittest.
If u want a challenge, I'll kill u with1swipe!
Die die die!
Your life is mine for the taking! Ha ha ha!
Stomp all over 'em like they was cookie crumbs!!! |
Vael Victus
"See you, fantasy monster game."
Posts: 2201
10/20/2009 00:10 | I have some new ideas, everyone.
Building on that 1x versus 2x SRP, I was thinking every area, dictated by CITY, not TOWN, would have its own "infestation rate". You go out and you kill the dudes until you are under the infestation rate for the day. All the ones who are infesting are worth twice the SRP, and then you can also take bonuses in the form of boasting. So you could have like 2.5x the SRP and the game would be quite challenging. Even when the infestation is over, you can still take bounties, which allows me to keep the spirit of MonBre (you can play a lot) while still making people want to come back the next day.
For completing infestations you also earn some form of currency, I can't decide what. You can spend the currency on things like dolls that substitute for a second monster in splicing (though these will be a lot of points) and other little knick-knacks.
One problem however is currently our equip system. I hate it. It makes people too powerful too quickly, especially with Dokov. (who I regret making so strong... but the recent nerf made him better) I'm considering making the second slot shard-only, and making equips unfortunately just a bit more rare.
Edit: I'd also like to say I was pleasantly surprised to see 45 people logged in today. This makes me think that perhaps in the future this game can be a big deal. Just not right now. Don't worry, it's going to suck for you guys who are at the end of monbre now, but it'll be better when it's better. I still feel bad for you all 'cuz you genuinely like MonBre. 
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MonBre is an unlisted game of Tinydark Studio.
Personal Website: vaelvict.us
Edited twice, with the latest on Tuesday, Oct 20th 0:15:59 2009 by Vael Victus |
Killer Killer
"die, die, die, die, die, die!"
Posts: 824
10/20/2009 05:38 | Dokov, I hate him, and donate almost all of the equips I get from him to the guild. 'Cause I have better ones, and most of the equips I get from him are from Paraletas or lower, and I have better. I've never gotten a really good one, so I just take the equips as they come, and donate or use them, depending on what I feel is good for me.
----
The rule of wildlife: Survival of the fittest.
If u want a challenge, I'll kill u with1swipe!
Die die die!
Your life is mine for the taking! Ha ha ha!
Stomp all over 'em like they was cookie crumbs!!! |
Belichko Debelichko
"One vision, one purpose!"
Posts: 87
10/20/2009 15:12 | Vael I think you need to make more items. Some of which should be really really good. Like 5-10 times better than the best now...and REALLY rare. So everyone would want them and will go exploring everyday to find them. And maybe it would be good if different monster types have some unique weapons only they can use. This will make people explore even more. And if there are more items (and if you find something often) I think it'll be more pleasent to explore. Not just going around killing mobs.
//Offtopic
Don't you find it funny how things work in my guild. You ask Dokov for an item from one big list and he gives it to you. 
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Killer Killer
"die, die, die, die, die, die!"
Posts: 824
10/20/2009 17:55 | And you can try again if you get some good ol'' food.
----
The rule of wildlife: Survival of the fittest.
If u want a challenge, I'll kill u with1swipe!
Die die die!
Your life is mine for the taking! Ha ha ha!
Stomp all over 'em like they was cookie crumbs!!! |
Vael Victus
"See you, fantasy monster game."
Posts: 2201
10/21/2009 11:10 | Yeah belichko is the real-life Dokov. So great.
Anyway, I know the game could use a bit "flavor" in exploring, but it's my hope that people won't binge on the exploring and get tired of it too fast, with this new system. I'm still going to be making cool things... when I get around to them.
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MonBre is an unlisted game of Tinydark Studio.
Personal Website: vaelvict.us |
Killer Killer
"die, die, die, die, die, die!"
Posts: 824
10/21/2009 15:51 | I always loved exploring, ups stats a lot faster than working (IF you do it enough), and also loves equips TOO!
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The rule of wildlife: Survival of the fittest.
If u want a challenge, I'll kill u with1swipe!
Die die die!
Your life is mine for the taking! Ha ha ha!
Stomp all over 'em like they was cookie crumbs!!! |
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